Google Chrome DOES NOT Have 30 Million Users

By | November 4, 2009 | 122 Comments


Google Chrome Does Not Have 30 Million UsersIt seems that press is picking up a story about Google’s Chrome users count. What they fail to realize is the fact that browser had 30 million active users more than 4 months ago.

“It’s been an exciting nine months since we launched the Google Chrome browser. Already, over 30 million people use it regularly.”
Posted on 7/07/2009.

So, no, Chrome does not have 30 million users, it has over 40 million of them.

Market share:
July, 2009 – 2.59% – 30 million users reported
October, 2009 – 3.58% – ~38% increase = 41 million + users.

[digg-reddit-me]


About (Author Profile)


Vygantas is a former web designer whose projects are used by companies such as AMD, NVIDIA and departed Westood Studios. Being passionate about software, Vygantas began his journalism career back in 2007 when he founded FavBrowser.com. Having said that, he is also an adrenaline junkie who enjoys good books, fitness activities and Forex trading.

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  • nobody

    and as always certain diehard opera fanatics will claim, that their stats are the only reliable one, while acitvely hiding any methodological data.

    http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2009/11/03/browser-stats#comments

    haavard actively denies anyone insigth into methods of opera user base measurements, using muddy claims about ‘read about it, i dont want to repeat myself’ or ‘we spoke about it many times already’.

    maybe he did, but it is strange, that he claims something with utter confidence, but when asked for facts and hard data, he simply start to evade answers.

    discussion is of course out of the question, because when you try to ask you get a little gestapo-like ‘stay on-topic’ or he simply deletes questions he doesnt like.

    so on the one hand there are various stat organisations providing measurable and verifiable data with proven level of accuracy (given how hard it is to measure – these sources somehow still agre about each browser’ market share level within 1-2% span).

    on the other hand we have opera saying – it is all bollocks, we know better, but we are not going to disclose you are super mega secret methodology.

    why? because you cant deny methodology you dont know, so they avoid any sort of criticism, while openly attack and belitle others. and one wonder why Opera is so ignored..

    • Somebody

      Actually , he has said all stats are unreliable. And if i remember correctly, Opera counts its active users from the update check that the browser does, similar to how Firefox does it.
      And no, different stat companies don’t agree on the market share within 1-2% . For example, the Netapp share for Firefox is around 24% and the Statcounter share stands at around 32%. That is a difference in millions of internet users and is not by any means small. Just shows how reliable stats are.
      That doesn’t mean they are completely useless though, and i believe Opera’s share shown in these stats is more or less near the actual usage. It’s just that we need to take these stats with a pinch of salt.

      • nobody

        and we do take them with this in mind. some of us – like me – are educated in statistics and stochastics, know how to extract valuable information from even the most confusing sources, how to apply weights etc. software like sas or statistica helps a lot.

        these values represent clear trends – if one provider (not changing methodology and applying that to old results – thats what netapplications did and that was stupid) presents stat data for certain perdiod of time, you can see trends, accurate trends. most if not all stat sources show that opera does little besides organic growth, ie. its userbase grows in numbers proportionate to overal internet users growth.

        they might be hyping milions of users increase, but if all other products are growing with the same proportional speed, these milions means nothing, because opera still has around 1-3% marketshare.

        opera can report 40 or 60% user count grow, but that is because they have very small base to start with (just like 1 to 2 is 100% increase 1000 to 1001 is one promile increase..

        and if you can, please link me to RECENT opera methodology, that one with counting updatechecks is unreliable as hell, because most 9.x versions doesnt have it, and some that do, do it very unfrequently. if opera is so suer about their methodology why they dont disclose it in detail?

        • Washout

          some of us – like me – are educated in statistics and stochastics, know how to extract valuable information from even the most confusing sources, how to apply weights etc. software like sas or statistica helps a lot.

          LOL. You have proven to be both ignorant, dishonest and bigoted. And now you claim to be an authority in statistics, and that is in addition to being a master web developer at a major web development company!

          Is there something you CAN’T do? LOL!

          these values represent clear trends

          Only if you accept that they are trustworthy in the first place, which they have turned out not to be.

          and if you can, please link me to RECENT opera methodology, that one with counting updatechecks is unreliable as hell, because most 9.x versions doesnt have it, and some that do, do it very unfrequently.

          Wrong. Opera has been automatically checking for updates for several versions. It didn’t update automatically until Opera 10, but older versions definitely contacted Opera’s servers and checked for updates with regular intervals. And when you know the intervals between automatic checks (and discount manual checks), it’s trivially easy to know the size of the user base.

          But an ignorant liar such as yourself wouldn’t know anything about that.

    • Washout

      and as always certain diehard opera fanatics will claim, that their stats are the only reliable one, while acitvely hiding any methodological data.

      Now you are lying again, just like you were lying about the alleged Unite security problems that turned out to be how all web servers work.

      Opera aren’t publishing BROWSER STATISTICS, they are publishing actual USER NUMBERS.

      so on the one hand there are various stat organisations providing measurable and verifiable data with proven level of accuracy

      Wrong again. Net Applications has repeatedly been caught lying, cheating, and changing their stats after the fact. They even admitted recently that they had been publishing bogus stats all along, so they had to change the way they published them.

      on the other hand we have opera saying – it is all bollocks, we know better, but we are not going to disclose you are super mega secret methodology.

      Stop lying.

      Net Applications is publishing claims about global market share, which is impossible to measure. Too many error sources.

      Opera is publishing actual user numbers for the browser.

      Two different sets of numbers.

      But an ignoramus like you wouldn’t know the difference, I guess.

  • ouzowtf

    and on which of the stat organisations is this market share based? and which region? and which time period? that should be something mentioned.

    • Washout

      Vygantas doesn’t care about reliability, honesty and integrity. All he cares about is pushing his favorite browsers, and spreading FUD about Opera.

      • http://www.favbrowser.com Vygantas Lipskas

        I don’t have a favorite browser, but you probably know everything much better.

        • Washout

          We all know you hage Opera based on your constant anti-Opera comments and articles. Why do you keep spreading FUD about Opera?

  • Washout

    So, no, Chrome does not have 30 million users, it has over 40 million of them.

    And you use the bogus stats from Net Applications to “prove” that?

    Hilarious.

    Let’s use the same logic for Opera:

    Reported market share in March: 2.04%
    Reported share in August: 2.12%

    Opera’s user numbers for March: 30 million
    Opera’s user numbers for August: 40 million

    The Net Application numbers simply don’t match reality!

    But you wouldn’t care about that, would you, Vygantas? We all know you hate Opera, and always keep mindlessly repeating the nonsensical drivel from Net Applications even though you have been told many times that they are bogus.

    Pathetic.

    • Eice

      We all know you love Opera, who’s the only one telling the truth while everyone else is lying.

      It’s telling that you don’t even have the balls to reveal to us Opera’s methodology, which you defend with such petulant bigotry. Pathetic.

      • Washout

        What, are you drunk? Everyone knows that Opera checks for updates automatically. It’s trivial to figure out the number of users from that. It’s the same thing Mozilla does, and probably Google as well. In fact, “Somebody” specifically mentioned Opera’s update checks. So, are you drunk or just dishonest?

        We know that Opera is telling the truth because they are required by law to give truthful information to their share holders, and there are controls in place to make sure they do. If they don’t, they will be fined.

        We also know that Net Applications has a history of lying, and bogus stats.

        So you are talking nonsense, and ignoring the facts like all Opera bashers always are.

        Opera isn’t the only one telling the truth. I’m sure Google and Mozilla do the same when reporting the number of users. So take your pathetic anti-Opera straw man arguments and shove them up your back-side.

        • Eice

          “Everybody knows”? THAT’S your explanation?

          No, I don’t know what bull you’re spewing. When you’re done reloading your mouth with more crap and are ready to pull your head out of your backside; specific methodology, please, and an explanation of how their numbers must be accurate while everyone else is lying.

          • Washout

            If you didn’t know that Opera automatically checks for updates, that’s your problem, now isn’t it?

            and an explanation of how their numbers must be accurate while everyone else is lying

            Wow, spewing straw men much?

            I never said that everyone else is lying. I said that Net Applications is lying. But Opera, Google and Mozilla are likely not lying about their user numbers, because they actually have the ability to know how many users they have!

            Now go away and educate yourself instead of spouting ignorant nonsense and useless straw man arguments.

          • Eice

            Am I the only one surprised of no methodology and yet more vitriol?

          • Washout

            It comes as no surprise that you ignore actual facts, and keep spewing out lies instead.

            You can’t even address the fact that you lied and claimed that I said that everyone else lies, which is a blatant lie on your part.

            Truly pathetic.

            I wonder why these insane trolls keep trolling every single article about Opera…

          • Eice

            More evasive action, abuses, insults, petulance, and – as usual – zero evidence and methodology documentation.

            Keep running away from the truth, little man.

          • Thoe

            How about you show everyone where anyone said that “everyone else is lying”, Eice?

            Did you really not know about Opera’s automatic update checks?

          • Eice

            There’s really no need to switch to another username to rally some much-needed support for yourself, you know. We don’t bite.

            Again, waiting for evidence and methodology documentation from you. Not that I expect they’ll ever be forthcoming, as you’re made of nothing but hot air and immaturity.

          • Thoe

            You are hardly the right person to accuse others if “immaturity” considering your childish antics on this site.

            Sorry, but I’m not going to waste my time trying to educate those who insist on remaining willfully ignorant.

        • Eice

          Well, what do you know. More hot air, still no evidence and methodology documentation.

          I’d say “I told you so”, but your perpetual routine of childishness and pulling empty claims out of your rear end is just making it too easy.

          • Thoe

            You already know how Opera can calculate the user numbers. I’m not sure why you keep pretending that no one has told you.

            You clearly accept it when Mozilla does it. So what could it be since you obviously don’t accept it when Opera does the same thing? Hmm, could there be some bigotry and hypocrisy involved here? :D

          • Eice

            I’m merely saying that Mozilla’s numbers corroborate what others are saying. Opera is the only one who seems to be pulling its numbers out of nowhere. I guess that makes sense, since they seem to like hiring shills who pull empty arguments out of their arse as well…

          • Thoe

            I’m merely saying that Mozilla’s numbers corroborate what others are saying.

            On the contrary, what you have just shown is that Mozilla’s numbers prove that the stats from Net Application are bogus.

            Opera is the only one who seems to be pulling its numbers out of nowhere.

            That’s quite amazing. After being told repeatedly that Opera automatically checks for updates like Firefox does, and therefore Opera can use the same method as Mozilla to calculate its user base, you continue to insist that this feature does not exist in Opera?

            Ok, fine. You have chosen your path. The path of ignorance. Good luck with continued fail.

          • Eice

            “Being told repeatedly”? By who? Apparently by an ignorant shill with multiple screen names who’s unable to understand the basic nuances of logic, much less statistics.

            You’ll excuse me if I go and enjoy a long, loud laugh at the notion that your repeated spewings are worth anything at all, much less of any use as evidence.

          • Thoe

            So you are denying the fact that you have repeatedly been made aware of Opera’s automatic checking for updates?

  • tst

    “Reported market share in March: 2.04%
    Reported share in August: 2.12%

    Opera’s user numbers for March: 30 million
    Opera’s user numbers for August: 40 million”

    Well, these numbers actually can be true, it all depends on how did the overall market grow in that given time. It is called “organic growth”. If you are interested in facts, you’ll handle needed calculations, if you aren’t I’m not going to waste my time teaching you maths.

    BTW. you (not so) cleverly omitted “reported” before Opera’ user number. They are the only source of this number, and up to this day, they’ve never disclosed how did they get them.

    You seem to be more interested in presenting you as an emotionally-challenged angry teenager, than in any form of civilized discussion.

    • Washout

      You need to pay attention.

      Vygantas used Net Applications to calculate the Chrome user base, ignoring the repeated warnings about how useless the figures from Net Applications is.

      And when you use the same method to “calculate” Opera’s user base, the numbers simply don’t match up, once again showing how bogus the figures from Net Applications are.

      And yes, Opera’s numbers can be trusted. As a Norwegian company, Opera is required by law to report accurately to their shareholders.

      Also, people from Opera have indeed talked about how they calculate the numbers.

      Hint for you… Opera checks for updates automatically, and IIANM, it’s possible to separate automatic checks from manual ones, etc. So it’s EASY to calculate the user numbers.

      Also: Why would you blindly trust numbers from Net Applications with their non-representative sample, low sample size and poor methodology (as they admitted), but not trust Opera? Why are you anti-Opera trolls always distrusting Opera, but blindly accept any claims from Net Applications, Google, etc.?

      • Jac

        Hey Washout, how much is Opera paying you?

      • tst

        Aside from blablabla and typical for people with anger management insults and hatred towards anyone that does not agree with you, your post has 0 facts and arguments. Please, post a link to an article/blog post where Opera employee explains how Opera measures its user base. Until then what you do is pretend to know, something that you in reality do not know, but assume or pull out of your behind.

        And please, refrain from using “we all know” etc. Replace it with “I think I know”. That’s more like it.

        BTW. As someone older and wiser to explain you the world of percentages, because this:

        “And when you use the same method to “calculate” Opera’s user base, the numbers simply don’t match up, once again showing how bogus the figures from Net Applications are.”

        shows that you need some maths lessons.

        • Washout

          It’s funny how “tst” doesn’t actually address the fact that the same methodology applied to Opera’s numbers shows that the stats from Net Applications are bogus.

          Instead, he tries to change the subject with the regular dishonesty of an irrational person who cannot grasp simple facts.

          Apparently the numbers from Opera can’t be trusted at all, but you can definitely trust Google, Mozilla, and especially Net Applications (even though they ADMITTED that their figures were completely wrong).

          Go figure.

          • tst

            Link to Opera’ methodology, please.

            You are not going to get away from this, post a link. Now.

          • Thoe

            Why do you need a link when you know that it’s very easy to count users when the browser checks for update with regular intervals?

            That’s how Mozilla counts Firefox users too.

            But you aren’t really interested in methodologies, are you?

          • Eice

            Except that Mozilla does the counting right. Given how it reports ~300 million users for itself, one would expect it to have ten times Chrome’s market share of ~30 million users. As it is, major trackers more or less agree on 25-30% market share for Firefox, and 2-3% for Chrome.

            Opera has ~40 million users? Oh, really? I suppose Mozilla, Chrome, NetApplications and StatCounter must all be ganging up on poor lil’ Opera then in a vast conspiracy. Oh dear me.

          • Thoe

            Ah, so Mozilla does the counting right, but Opera is clearly not capable of counting hits on its autoupdate server?

            I understand.

            By the way, this whole discussion exists because FavBrowser claims that Chrome actually has more than 40 million users, making your whole calculation fall apart, and you disprove your own claims. Oops.

            No conspiracy. Just people without a clue abusing numbers they don’t understand.

          • Thoe

            I just had to check the numbers at for October at Net Applications:

            Firefox: 24.07%
            Chrome: 3.58%

            So if, as you claim, Chrome has 30 million users and Firefox has 300 million users, Net Applications is clearly wrong again. 3.6 is not 1/10 of 24.

            Yes, Opera reported 40 million users a few months ago. To their shareholders. But I guess you have decided that Opera always lies, while Net Applications always tells the truth (even though they recently changed all their stats completely, even historical stats, but never mind silly facts like that)…

          • Eice

            It’s really ironic that the person who obviously has zero understanding of what “statistical error” is is trying to tell people they have no understanding of numbers.

            Besides, if Mozilla has ~300 million users at 24.07%, that makes it approx. ~44 million for Chrome at 3.58%, which is well within the range of what one would expect. Unless we want to buy the conspiracy theory that Net Applications, Mozilla AND Google are ganging up on Opera, it and its 40 million users is nothing but an incompetent lie for paid, intellectually-challenged shills like yourself to mindlessly regurgitate, thinking that we’re all as stupid as you are.

          • Thoe

            Wait, so now you are changing your claims?

            I thought 30 million Chrome users “proved” that Net Applications was right!

            And now totally different numbers prove the same thing even though it directly contradicts your previous claim?

            Amazing. You can be right all the timt that way :D

            The errors in the stats from Net Applications are well beyond statistical errors, but you need to have a basic understanding of statistics to realize that I guess.

          • Eice

            I’m right because the numbers from NetApps, Mozilla AND Google are more or less in agreement. Don’t blame me because the facts are on my side, blame yourself for stupidly choosing to tell deliberate lies instead.

          • Thoe

            Actually, you have just demonstrated that the numbers from Net Applications does not match the numbers from Mozilla and Google.

            Worse yet, you were defending Net Applications and insisting that they were accurate even before the recent change in their current and historical numbers. But now you insist that they are right now!

            So which is it? Was Net Applications right before or now?

            And are your calculations based on 30 or 40 million users for Chrome? In both cases, the numbers clearly show that Net Applications is completely off. You even admitted this yourself by completely changing the numbers over and over, and still insisting that you were right!

            You have no facts. All you have is the amazing ability to contradict yourself and pretend that nothing happened.

          • Eice

            Are you sure you still need to ask me whether I’m going with 30 or 40 million? Oh, PUH-leeeeeze.

            The numbers are there for all to see, and anyone with a knowledge of grade-school math can easily verify them. But then again, I suppose your job is to stick your fingers into your ears, go “lalala”, and continue shilling for your hard-earned wages from Opera. Understandable.

          • Thoe

            Indeed, the numbers are there, and no matter how you twist and turn them, you contradicted yourself, and have consistently kept changing your argument when proven wrong in a desperate attempt to pretend that your arguments weren’t devastated by actual facts.

            Busted :)

          • Thoe

            By the way, are you denying the fact that you have repeatedly been made aware of Opera’s automatic checking for updates?

  • Washout

    Oh dear. The trolls keep lying about what people write…

  • http://www.poweriser.dk Anders Holm

    It will be interesting to see how much the use of Google Chrome will increase when the Google ChromeOS is launched… (and Google Chrome is standard browser).

  • nobody

    “LOL. You have proven to be both ignorant, dishonest and bigoted. And now you claim to be an authority in statistics, and that is in addition to being a master web developer at a major web development company!”

    and you are still noone but obsesive troll with anger management issues.

    i’m also waiting for you posting a link to a place where opera employee explains how opera measures their user number. in details.

    • Thoe

      Hey, you switched from “tst” and “Eice” back to “nobody” :D

      Question: Are you rejecting Mozilla and Google’s user numbers as well? Since they are based on counting automatic update requests (at least Mozilla has explained that that’s how they do it)?

      • nobody

        i always sign with the same name, troll

        link to detailed opera methodology please.

        • Thoe

          Yes, sure you do :-D

          Do you have a link to Google and Mozilla’s methodology?

          • nobody

            link to opera methodology please

          • Thoe

            Not until you give me a link to Mozilla’s methodology.

            There is a link to Mozilla’s methodology, right? Yes or no?

          • nobody

            you’ve started this with your claims as ‘we all know’ etc.

            link to opera methodology explaining how do they count their user count that you so deeply believe in and defend it. now.

            you are in dead end, anyone reading this bull.. knows who is who, and who has nothing to support his claims. ill not let you have last word here, youve gone too far with your insults, ‘liar/lying/bigot’ nonsense and pulling lies out of the hot behind. i can wait, and youll provide this link or be reminded of this discussion each time you emerge from your swamp.

          • Golden Boy

            “Firefox checks for new versions every 24 hours, when it’s running, and when it checks, it pings the Mozilla server. We count the number of pings.”

            http://news.softpedia.com/news/Firefox-Adds-30-Million-New-Users-in-Just-8-Weeks-125490.shtml

          • Thoe

            you’ve started this with your claims as ‘we all know’ etc.

            So what you are saying is that you don’t know Mozillas methodology, and yet you blindly accept Mozilla’s claims, whereas you automatically reject Opera’s?

            Is that what you are saying?

            As for bringing old discussions up, since you are so keen on reminding other people, you still haven’t responded to having your FUD about Unite exposed here:

            http://www.favbrowser.com/pwning-opera-unite-with-infernos-eleven/comment-page-1/#comment-76396

            You know, the comment where you basically claim that the whole web is a security issue! :-D

          • Thoe

            Great, Golden Boy (another one of “nobody”‘s aliases?)! Now explain why Opera can’t do the same thing (provided that this is what you are claiming, of course).

          • nobody

            “As for bringing old discussions up, since you are so keen on reminding other people, you still haven’t responded to having your FUD about Unite exposed here:”

            im not responsible for your unability to read with comprehension and for unability to state your own opinion.

            link to opera methodology please – because all you do in this entire discussion is to attack others, avoiding saying ANYTHING on your own, so maybe provide us with YOUR information?

            link to opera methodology please

          • Golden Boy

            I never said that they can’t.

            Now provide link where Opera says that they do that, as can/do are two completely different things.

            Thanks.

          • Thoe
          • nobody

            a little more details please, and please – not from haavard :)

            btw, why tinyurl? afraid of someone at opera?

          • Thoe

            Just as I thought.

            “nobody” exposes his bigotry, ignorance and hypocrisy. He will automatically reject anything about Opera that doesn’t match his bigotry. Even when it comes from Opera itself.

            What he must either admit now is that he has no clue how Mozilla counts users, but he blindly accepts their numbers anyway, whereas he rejects Opera’s numbers even though they are as reliable as Mozilla’s.

            Or he must admit that he knows how Mozilla does it, and then he must explain why Opera can’t do it the same way, and finally explain again why he accepts Mozilla’s numbers without questioning them, whereas he automatically rejects Opera’s.

            Either way, he is exposed as an ignorant hypocrite and bigot :-D

          • nobody

            can != do

            link to DETAILS please

          • Thoe

            By the way, nobody, now it’s your turn to link to Mozilla’s methodology. And unless you want to be labeled a hypocrite, that source cannot be Mozilla itself, since that is what you demand of Opera :-D

          • nobody

            link to DETAILED opera methodoogy please – one sentence is not ‘detailed’ enough

          • Thoe

            Link to DETAILED Mozilla methodology please.

            And then you must explain why Opera can’t use the same methodology.

            But either way, you have been exposed :-D

            Also, you claim that the entire web is insecure because you were so busy spreading FUD about Unite that you forgot that the FUD you were spreading was true for any web server :-D

            But you never responded to that :-D

          • Eice

            It’s unacceptable when Opera says it for the simple reason that NOBODY else is corroborating their numbers, and they’re the only one providing such anomalous statistics. Of course, that works them into a hissy fit, and they send employees (haavard) and shills (you) on a warpath to paint NetApps as a liar. Opera is right, and everyone else – whose numbers more or less match each other – is lying. Sure, we get it. ;)

            Okay, so you’re paid to scream and rage that NetApps lies. Never mind that their stats tally with the numbers given by Mozilla and Google, whom your alter-ego says is telling the truth. Let’s put all that aside, and have a look at what StatCounter says:

            Stats for July: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200907-200907-bar. Chrome is at 3.01%, this was 4 months ago when they claimed they had 30 million. Stats for end of Oct: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200910-200911-bar. Firefox is now at 31.83% and claim they have 300 million. Chrome has grown to 4.21% (poor Opera actually lost market share, but let’s be diplomatic and not laugh for now).

            If Chrome had 30 million when they were at 3%, an increase to 4.21% puts them at (100/30.1)*30 times 4.21%, which puts them at… 42 million. More or less what we expected to find. If Chrome has 42 million at 4.21%, then Firefox at 31.83% has – you guessed it – 317 million. Not too far off the ballpark.

            So NetApps is lying. Okay. Whatever keeps the wages from Opera coming. But then I guess that’d mean that Mozilla, Google, AND StatCounter are lying as well, and yet again, Opera emerges as the sole champion of truth and justice, fighting alone against a vast conspiracy.

            Opera? 40 million users? Hahaha ha HAHA HAHAHAHAHA.

          • Thoe

            ROTFL. Your desperation is quite amazing. You move the goalpost once again!

            Even though Statcounter and Net Applications both show completely different numbers, they are apparently both right :-D

            Okay, so you’re paid to scream and rage that NetApps lies. Never mind that their stats tally with the numbers given by Mozilla and Google

            Nope. They do not, as you have demonstrated yourself. The funniest part is when you try to use totally different stats from StatCounter to once again change your argument!

            Hilarious!

            It’s unacceptable when Opera says it for the simple reason that NOBODY else is corroborating their numbers

            Wrong. StatCounter showed Opera at about 3% earlier this year when the global internet population was about 1.4 billion (according to the Internet World Stats) while Opera reported crossing the 30 million user line.

            But then I guess that’d mean that Mozilla, Google, AND StatCounter are lying as well

            No, Net Applications is lying. StatCounter hasn’t been caught lying directly, but their stats are wrong as well. It’s impossible to measure global market share. They don’t have a representative sample, and there are too many possible sources of errors.

            Also, the fact that you keep moving the goalpost shows your desperation. You keep contradicting yourself and constantly pulling in new numbers when old ones are debunked. Quite funny :-D

          • Thoe

            And never mind the fact that Eice’s argument is circular:

            Step 1: FavBrowser’s numbers based on stats from Net Applications shows that Chrome has 41 million users.

            Step 2: If we assume that Chrome has 41 million users, we can compare this to Firefox, and it clearly shows that Net Applications is right.

            Even a total moron is able to see that your entire argument is circular, and based on automatically accepting claims from Net Applications in the first place.

            Epic fail.

          • Thoe

            And here’s what ‘nobody’ wrote earlier…

            Given how it reports ~300 million users for itself, one would expect it to have ten times Chrome’s market share of ~30 million users. As it is, major trackers more or less agree on 25-30% market share for Firefox, and 2-3% for Chrome.

            So previously, 30 million “proved” that Net Applications was correct. Now it is suddenly 40 million! So which is it? Did you lie the first time or the second?

            If you move the goalpoast more now, it will fall off the edge of the flat world you believe in… :-D

        • Thoe

          Ah, “nobody”‘s dodging and weaving continues.

          He now either has to admit that he is a liar and a hypocrite, and that he has no clue what Mozilla does, but he believes them anyway, while he automatically rejects Opera.

          Or he has to admit that he knows how Mozilla does it, and that Opera is doing the same thing, and yet he only accepts Mozilla’s numbers, not Opera.

          Truly pathetic.

          Also, the Unite thing still awaits a response. But you know you can’t respond because you realize you’ve made a fool of yourself again :-D

          • nobody

            link to DETAILED methodology please, that what haavard said is VERY vague and can be interpreted in any way

            details please

          • Thoe

            Sorry, you must either accept that you are a bigot, hypocrite and a liar because you don’t know Mozilla’s methodology, and yet you accept their numbers, but not Opera’s. Or you accept Mozilla’s claims about their methodology, but not Opera’s.

            Either way, you have been exposed :-D

            But, link to Mozilla’s methodology please!

            And then you need to explain why Opera can’t use the same methodology.

          • nobody

            you claimed to KNOW how opera works – link please, explaining in DETAILS how opera does it.

            because it doesnt matter if mozilla/google do it in way A or B, you claimed that opera figures are accurate, prove it. not by assertion, by simply point me to a place where opera explains from where they are getting their numbers.

            and as for the namecalling, booohoo

          • Thoe

            VERY vague

            Quote from the blog: “is being used, to calculate the number of users”

            Once again your amazing hypocrisy and bigotry has been exposed :-D

          • Thoe

            You claimed that Mozilla’s numbers are accurate. Link to DETAILED Mozilla methodology please.

            And then you must explain why Opera can’t use the same methodology.

            But either way, you have been exposed :-D

            Also, you claim that the entire web is insecure because you were so busy spreading FUD about Unite that you forgot that the FUD you were spreading was true for any web server :-D

            But you never responded to that :-D

          • nobody

            “Quote from the blog: “is being used, to calculate the number of users””

            this is DETAILS for you? sorry, see your doctor

          • Thoe

            Still waiting for you to explain why you accept Mozilla’s numbers, but not Opera’s. Stop the dishonest dodging and weaving, and the attempts to change the subject now :-D

            Again: You claimed that Mozilla’s numbers are accurate. Link to DETAILED Mozilla methodology please.

            And then you must explain why Opera can’t use the same methodology.

            But either way, you have been exposed :-D

            Also, you claim that the entire web is insecure because you were so busy spreading FUD about Unite that you forgot that the FUD you were spreading was true for any web server :-D

            But you never responded to that :-D

          • nobody

            you’ve not posted any requested details

            and i dont have to explain anything – mozilla can use method A and opera can use method B. so mozilla has nothing to do with you not being able to tell me how opera measures its user base and why their stats are reliable, but everyone’ else are not.

          • Thoe

            More dodging and weawing from the dishonest “nobody”.

            My demands, in order to deal with your dishonesty in a proper fashion:

            1. Link to detailed Mozilla methodology, please.

            2. Show how Opera cannot use the same methodology as Mozilla.

            3. Explain why you accept the numbers from Mozilla whether you know the methodology or not, but you reject Opera’s whether you know their methodology or not.

            4. I want you to admit that your FUD about Unite was just that – FUD, and that your comments would apply to any web server.

            Failing to respond to these, and I will give you a taste of your own medicine: I will post a reminder about this whenever I see your dishonest character around here :-D

          • nobody

            demands? buaha.. haaaa hahahahaa!

            troll with a sense of humor

          • Thoe

            Ah, a dishonest troll throwing around accusations about trolling :-D

            And yet more hypocrisy. Apparently it’s fine for the liar to demand things, but when someone demands something from him, he quickly changes the subject :-D

          • nobody

            not only having troubles remembering your own name, but now talking about yourself?

          • Thoe

            BWAHAHA, the old “I know you are, but what am I” kindergarten move :-D

            Noob.

          • Eice

            Simply saying that “we count update pings!” is NOT methodology. There’s a reason why, say, methodology documentation for antivirus tests, for instance, list a lot more information than just “Oh, we scanned a bunch of files and jotted down the results.”

            Nobody is accepting Mozilla’s methodology blindly. Even then, the numbers reported by NetApps, Mozilla and Google happen to tally. It’s apparent by now that your level of intelligence prevents you from verifying the math for yourself, but you can ask daddy or your grade school teacher to help you out. ~300 million users for Firefox, which has 24.07% market share, means ~44 million for Chrome at 3.58%, which is more or less what we expected to find.

            Coincidence or conspiracy? Is this all some dark plot to overthrow Opera? Not really. But when other people’s statistics more or less agree and corroborate each other’s and Opera is the only out loudly declaring how it has 40 million users (“Me too, me too!”), AND is unable to explain where it’s numbers come from, it’s really just sad. How sad, you ask? Well, I’d say it’s a toss whether the shill or the paymaster is more pathetic…

          • Thoe

            LOL, welcome back, “nobody”, now logged in as “Eice” again :D

            Apparently “counting pings” was perfectly acceptable when it was Mozilla saying it. It is only unacceptable when Opera says it!

            You just claimed that Chrome had 30 million users, and that “proved” that Net Applications was right. Then you realized that your argument was useless, and you changed your argument to 40 million, even though that doesn’t match up either!

            You can keep making these claims until your head falls off, but that won’t counter the fact that the numbers don’t actually match up.

            Furthermore, you were a strong supporter of Net Applications and blindly accepted their numbers even before they recently changed all their historical stats completely. You blindly accept claims from Net Applications even though they have a history of lying.

            On the other hand, you automatically reject perfectly reasonable numbers from Opera just because they don’t match your bigoted bias.

            And as I said, there’s no conspiracy here. Just people without a clue abusing numbers they don’t understand.

          • Thoe

            Here’s what “nobody” wrote earlier:

            Given how it reports ~300 million users for itself, one would expect it to have ten times Chrome’s market share of ~30 million users. As it is, major trackers more or less agree on 25-30% market share for Firefox, and 2-3% for Chrome.

            So previously, 30 million “proved” that Net Applications was correct. Now it is suddenly 40 million! So which is it? Did you lie the first time or the second?

            If you move the goalpoast more now, it will fall off the edge of the flat world you believe in :-D

          • Thoe

            And by the way, are you denying the fact that you have repeatedly been made aware of Opera’s automatic checking for updates?

  • Eice

    *sigh*

    Dude, the times when Mozilla claims 300 million for itself and when Google claims 30 million for itself are FOUR MONTHS APART. By the time Mozilla made that annoucement, 4 months after Google’s, Chrome’s user count has ostensibly grown to +40 million.

    I think it’s pretty obvious I was just skimming the topic title and made the “300 vs 30 million” mistake.

    • Thoe

      Face it: you tried to pretend that the numbers matched your claims. That shows just how desperate you are. You will say anything to be “right”.

    • Thoe

      Let’s look at what ‘nobody’ wrote earlier:

      Given how it reports ~300 million users for itself, one would expect it to have ten times Chrome’s market share of ~30 million users. As it is, major trackers more or less agree on 25-30% market share for Firefox, and 2-3% for Chrome.

      So previously, 30 million “proved” that Net Applications was correct. Now it is suddenly 40 million! So which is it? Did you lie the first time or the second?

      If you move the goalpoast more now, it will fall off the edge of the flat world you believe in… :-D

      • WellDuh

        Oops, forgot to quote. Corrected post:

        Let’s look at what ‘nobody’ wrote earlier:

        Given how it reports ~300 million users for itself, one would expect it to have ten times Chrome’s market share of ~30 million users. As it is, major trackers more or less agree on 25-30% market share for Firefox, and 2-3% for Chrome.

        So previously, 30 million “proved” that Net Applications was correct. Now it is suddenly 40 million! So which is it? Did you lie the first time or the second?

        If you move the goalpoast more now, it will fall off the edge of the flat world you believe in… :-D

    • Thoe

      By the way, Mozilla reported 300 million active users several months ago:

      http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2009/07/why_we_count.html

      Debunked again :-(

    • Thoe

      BTW, what about the numbers for IE and Safari?

      Safari is bigger than Chrome according to Net Applications. Chrome is bigger than Safari according to Statcounter.

      IE has 58%, but then it has 64%.

      But apparently, Statcounter and NetApps are both right even when they contradict eachother :-D

    • Thoe

      Also, NetApps claim that Opera has 2.17% with 40 million users, whereas Opera Mini with 35 million users only has 0.35%??

      And remember, Opera knows exactly how many Opera Mini users they have.

      But I guess you think their methodology when counting Opera Mini users is bogus too :-D

      • http://www.favbrowser.com Vygantas Lipskas

        Don’t forget that Opera Mini is using Opera Turbo (or similar) = Turbo servers access millions of pages with the same IP.

        And if Net Apps calculates market share per IP, that makes sense.

        • Chromehere

          What about Safari and IE? Their numbers don’t match up.

        • Washout

          It’s a good point about Opera Mini servers, actually. And this makes browser stats even more useless because this alone is a huge error source.

          And with Turbo growing in popularity the claimed market figures for Opera are basically completely wrong.

          (Even though it’s easy to look for the X-Forwarded-For header.)

      • somebody

        I think Netapp and other companies calculate usage rather than number of users. So Opera mini usage is bound to be less than the desktop browsers even if it has the same number of users, coz people normally browser for lesser time on mobile browsers. So we cannot match number of users to the stats. Atleast that’s what i believe :).

        • Washout

          Nope, looks like at least NetApps base their stats on “unique visitors”, as they explain on their site:

          We use a unique methodology for collecting this data. We collect data from the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million visitors per month. The information published is an aggregate of the data from this network of hosted website statistics. The site unique visitor and referral information is summarized on a monthly, weekly, daily and hourly basis.

  • Eice

    It’s unacceptable when Opera says it for the simple reason that NOBODY else is corroborating their numbers, and they’re the only one providing such anomalous statistics. Of course, that works them into a hissy fit, and they send employees (haavard) and shills (you) on a warpath to paint NetApps as a liar. Opera is right, and everyone else – whose numbers more or less match each other – is lying. Sure, we get it. ;)

    Okay, so you’re paid to scream and rage that NetApps lies. Never mind that their stats tally with the numbers given by Mozilla and Google, whom your alter-ego says is telling the truth. Let’s put all that aside, and have a look at what StatCounter says:

    Stats for July: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200907-200907-bar. Chrome is at 3.01%, this was 4 months ago when they claimed they had 30 million. Stats for end of Oct: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200910-200911-bar. Firefox is now at 31.83% and claim they have 300 million. Chrome has grown to 4.21% (poor Opera actually lost market share, but let’s be diplomatic and not laugh for now).

    If Chrome had 30 million when they were at 3%, an increase to 4.21% puts them at (100/30.1)*30 times 4.21%, which puts them at… 42 million. More or less what we expected to find. If Chrome has 42 million at 4.21%, then Firefox at 31.83% has – you guessed it – 317 million. Not too far off the ballpark.

    So NetApps is lying. Okay. Whatever keeps the wages from Opera coming. But then I guess that’d mean that Mozilla, Google, AND StatCounter are lying as well, and yet again, Opera emerges as the sole champion of truth and justice, fighting alone against a vast conspiracy.

    Opera? 40 million users? Hahaha ha HAHA HAHAHAHAHA.

    • Eice

      double post, my bad soz

    • Thoe

      ROTFL. Your desperation is quite amazing. You move the goalpost once again!

      Even though Statcounter and Net Applications both show completely different numbers, they are apparently both right :-D

      Okay, so you’re paid to scream and rage that NetApps lies. Never mind that their stats tally with the numbers given by Mozilla and Google

      Nope. They do not, as you have demonstrated yourself. The funniest part is when you try to use totally different stats from StatCounter to once again change your argument!

      Hilarious!

      It’s unacceptable when Opera says it for the simple reason that NOBODY else is corroborating their numbers

      Wrong. StatCounter showed Opera at about 3% earlier this year when the global internet population was about 1.4 billion (according to the Internet World Stats) while Opera reported crossing the 30 million user line.

      But then I guess that’d mean that Mozilla, Google, AND StatCounter are lying as well

      No, Net Applications is lying. StatCounter hasn’t been caught lying directly, but their stats are wrong as well. It’s impossible to measure global market share. They don’t have a representative sample, and there are too many possible sources of errors.

      Also, the fact that you keep moving the goalpost shows your desperation. You keep contradicting yourself and constantly pulling in new numbers when old ones are debunked. Quite funny :-D

      • Eice

        “Even though Statcounter and Net Applications both show completely different numbers, they are apparently both right :-D”

        “Completely different”? They both give strong indications that Mozilla and Google are giving more or less correct stats, and that Opera’s figures are completely phony.

        “Wrong. StatCounter showed Opera at about 3% earlier this year when the global internet population was about 1.4 billion (according to the Internet World Stats) while Opera reported crossing the 30 million user line.”

        Opera is lying NOW. It claims to have roughly as many users as Chrome. It is the only one saying so. No source or evidence is there to back up its empty claims.

        “No, Net Applications is lying. StatCounter hasn’t been caught lying directly, but their stats are wrong as well. It’s impossible to measure global market share. They don’t have a representative sample, and there are too many possible sources of errors.”

        No, Opera is lying. They haven’t been caught lying directly, but their stats are wrong as well. They’re the only one posting phony figures while everyone else is more or less in agreement on a DIFFERENT set of figures. Measuring global market share is perfectly possible. Even if you don’t get the numbers correct down to the last decimal, you can measure general trends perfectly well. The only ones who are shouting loudly against such monitoring are Opera – who happen to turn up dead last whenever anyone measures such data.

        • Washout

          “Completely different”? They both give strong indications that Mozilla and Google are giving more or less correct stats, and that Opera’s figures are completely phony.

          Not at all. StatCounter and NetApps directly contradict each other. The IE and Safari stats also directly makes NetApps contradict itself compared to your claims.

          Opera is lying NOW. It claims to have roughly as many users as Chrome. It is the only one saying so. No source or evidence is there to back up its empty claims.

          Actually, Opera’s numbers are trustworthy because they are required by law to be truthful. NetApps are not. Further to that, the NetApps numbers directly contradict the StatCounter numbers.

          Measuring global market share is perfectly possible.

          No, it’s impossible.

          Even if you don’t get the numbers correct down to the last decimal, you can measure general trends perfectly well.

          But that was not your argument. Your argument was that Opera was lying because the proven liars at NetApps had numbers that contradicted both your claims and their own claims about browser market share.

          You failed to address the fact that the NetApps do not match for Safari and IE, nor for Chrome and Firefox.

        • Washout

          Eice the liar ignored this:

          BTW, what about the numbers for IE and Safari?

          Safari is bigger than Chrome according to Net Applications. Chrome is bigger than Safari according to Statcounter.

          IE has 58%, but then it has 64%.

          But apparently, Statcounter and NetApps are both right even when they contradict eachother :-D

          Pathetic indeed. Lying troll.

    • Golden Boy

      Haavard represents a true face of Opera: always whining and always with negative attitude.

      • Thoe

        Aw, did someone hurt your puppy, “nobody”? :-D

      • Somebody

        One person or not even a few people can represent the face of opera browser. In that case , Asa Dotzler can be called the face of Firefox and he is much worse :P.

    • Thoe

      Never mind the fact that Eice’s argument is circular:

      Step 1: FavBrowser’s numbers based on stats from Net Applications shows that Chrome has 41 million users.

      Step 2: If we assume that Chrome has 41 million users, we can compare this to Firefox, and it clearly shows that Net Applications is right.

      Even a total moron is able to see that your entire argument is circular, and based on automatically accepting claims from Net Applications in the first place.

      Epic fail.

    • Thoe

      So here’s what ‘nobody’ wrote earlier:

      Given how it reports ~300 million users for itself, one would expect it to have ten times Chrome’s market share of ~30 million users. As it is, major trackers more or less agree on 25-30% market share for Firefox, and 2-3% for Chrome.

      So previously, 30 million “proved” that Net Applications was correct. Now it is suddenly 40 million! So which is it? Did you lie the first time or the second?

      If you move the goalpoast more now, it will fall off the edge of the flat world you believe in… :-D

  • Thoe

    Here’s what “nobody” wrote earlier:

    Given how it reports ~300 million users for itself, one would expect it to have ten times Chrome’s market share of ~30 million users. As it is, major trackers more or less agree on 25-30% market share for Firefox, and 2-3% for Chrome.

    So previously, 30 million “proved” that Net Applications was correct. Now it is suddenly 40 million! So which is it? Did you lie the first time or the second?

    If you move the goalpoast more now, it will fall off the edge of the flat world you believe in :-D

    • Thoe

      Oops, posted in the wrong place. This site sucks.

  • tst

    “So previously, 30 million “proved” that Net Applications was correct. Now it is suddenly 40 million! ”

    I do not want to interrupt this play, but you are aware of “time”, aren’t you?

    Thing in the past can differ from things now. Ask your dad to explain this phenomenon to you.

    I didn’t believe that at first, but your behavior now clearly shows that you are being paid for this.

    • Washout

      Except you forget the part where he was using 30 million as the current number. But hey, who cares about actual facts, eh?

  • Chromehere

    @Vygantas Lipskas

    Are you callin Google liars?

    Quoting Alan Eustace, Senior Vice President, Engineering & Research from this month:

    Google Chrome, which in only a year, has more than 30 million active users

    http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/investing-in-innovation-at-google.html

    And why would Google report only 30+ million users if they have more than 40+ anyway?

    • http://www.favbrowser.com Vygantas Lipskas

      No, I don’t think so.

      But in that case:
      a) Their user base did not grew in the last 3 months (hardly possible)
      b) They lied back then (hardly possible)
      c) They took starts from few months ago when reported user base in that post.

      • Chromehere

        Why would they report fewer users than they actually have? You are saying that they reported the wrong number this time around, which means that you are basically calling them liars.

        • http://www.favbrowser.com Vygantas Lipskas

          You should ask them why. I don’t call them liars, your interpretations are wrong.

          • Washout

            Why are you so quick to bash Opera, but equally quick to defend Google?

  • http://struggleisthespiceoflife.blogspot.com Haresh

    How much ‘trustable’ are these data when they come from the respective companies themselves?

    • Washout

      They can be trusted when they come from the browser vendors, but not from the stats companies (especially NetApps, which has a history of lying).

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