So bad, Opera had it more than a year before in Opera 3.0.

Really? The earliest I can find is Opera 5 back in 2000.

That’s your opinion. Besides MDI is the root for TDI, at least in Opera. Tha latter is just a fine representation of the first.

“I personally find” < what’s so hard to understand about that?
Hardly, MDI is just an extra box around your windows, APIs for implementing that existed far before Opera released their browser. Though, most likely they created their own implementation.
The latter is far more than MDI. In TDI you most often don’t have every window loaded at the same time and you have easy access to a list of available documents without having to search through menus.

Do you have a link for that, when it was implemented?

This has been up all over the internet several times, some people have even found old binaries just to post screenshots :P.
As for links, earlier than 16 December, 1998 at least.

NetCaptor lets you keep your open browser windows in one interface, organized by tabs.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=internetworks+|+netcaptor+browser+interface&scoring=a&sa=N&cid=8582822126167435

Speaking of links… I like how the Opera fanboys always scream for links and sources even though they themselves can only bother to post links to Opera owned sites 99% of the time…

It’s not just Chrome. Firefox has such an addon, and there’s also Safari 4. Even IE implemented some sort of “links in new tabs” option.

Those are way more elaborate than just having your top 9/25 bookmarks on your start page… Also, add-ons are made by the users of Firfox/SeaMonkey/Thunderbird most of the time and not Mozilla itself.
I also don’t see how you can think of it as something “you take for granted in modern browsers” when there’s barely any released browsers with a non-blank startpage. Especially given that you have to install an extension manually, that is definitely not taking something for granted.

Nobody used that before, so I guess we can call it invention. Your example is ridiculous…

I don’t see what Nobody has to do with this…
In what way is it “ridiculous”? It’s the same frikkin’ thing, only difference is one is local and default while the other is external and something you have to choose yourself.

ANd what about full page zoom anyway?

You call TDI a “fine representation of the first” yet you think of “full page zoom” as an invention? It’s an implementation of the magnifier accessibility tool on a broader, yet localized, scale.

Clear private data?

You were talking about innovation. Sure they were first in integrating more advanced handling of private data but there were many utilities created to do this in other browsers before they had anything.

Nicknames?

As far as I know, Opera added support for keywords in between Netscape’s pre-release and actual release with keyword support. Can’t find any sources though as every damn newspaper want me to pay them to read old news…

Interesting to note though, keywords must be the most unknown feature of any browser. Every-time I mention keywords anywhere there’s always at least one person who goes “cool, I didn’t know you could do that”. Btw, that goes for both users of Firefox and users of Opera.

User CSS-s?

When was this introduced? I can’t find any dates for it, though XUL was introduced in 1999 so Mozilla probably allowed for styling web pages and the GUI by then.
Still, it’s not innovation, it’s an implementation of already existing technology. It’s just a user-interface to change what is already there.

Integrated download manager?

Probably. But now you’ve gone and done it again. It’s not innovation, it’s implementation (or mash-up or remix if you will). Just because you glue a fork to a spoon and call it a spork you haven’t invented anything.

Mouse Gestures?

Implementation, not innovation. How hard can it be to understand?
I’d garner there’s a reason why Opera is alone with native (or aren’t they?) mouse gestures.
Sure back when you had just two buttons, or one if you were unlucky, gestures could probably help a bit. But with todays improved mice it’s no more than “decoration”. Of course, tastes differ.
Though I must confess I have been tempted to install a mouse gesture extension just to be able to do this:
http://www.mousegestures.org/

Open links in tabs (end with Right-Up-Left):
Making any gesture ending with a straight Right-Up-Left movement opens all crossed links in tabs.

Still, in the end, it’s keyboard all the way for me. Mouse is for playing FPS and strategy games :D

Small Screen Rendering?

Huh? I tried googling but all I found were this:
http://simonwillison.net/2002/Oct/22/mozillaSmallScreenRendering/

Drag&drop of tabs?

Quick search says that Firefox and Opera both got the ability on the same month?
Btw, I really think you’re starting to drag out straws now… Re-ordering tabs an innovation?

Spatial navigation?

I’m glad no major browser has implemented this, tab switching is enough. It’s a headache to know were you’re going to end up most of the time.
I very much prefer the caret navigation of Firefox over the spatial navigation of Safari and Opera.

Fast Forward/Rewind?

Is this something people actually use? Thank you, but I’d rather let Opera keep that one. I mean, it’s much simpler to open a new tab for every result that interests you.

Password manager?

Integrating a password manager isn’t innovation. Quick search doesn’t give me anything relevant so no idea about password management for any browser.

Full history search?

I take it you mean searching the text of cached pages from the location bar? Yeah, that was a nice comeback by Opera actually.
Still, it’s not really more than an extension of the already existing search and Internet Explorer had the ability to search your cached history back in version 4-5 had it not?

but prove it wrong if you can.

It would surely be nice if you could prove anything true… if you can? :P

Sorry if there’s some link not working or some sentence that doesn’t make sense. I’m not used to writing answers of this length -_-

@heh

Yes, innovation. They did it first. Innovation.

Which part did they do first? The search that Microsoft stole from them by traveling through time?

Chrome and Safari. Mozilla is also working on their own implementation.

Ah, I’ve never seen the Top Sites before. It does look like a thought out version of the dial.
Chrome and Mozilla on the other hand is actually trying to find a use for the new tab page rather than just throw in something that can be replaced by keywords or the bookmark toolbar.

It’s funny how you are so desperate to sling mud at Opera. Why the obsession?

Mud? Opera? No, you’re misunderstanding, I’m slinging mud at you and your ilk.
Not sure in what way I appear to be desperate though. It’s not like I’m the one that comments at least twice a day here…
Also, most of the time I comment here while waiting for dinner to cook or my tea to steep.

You seem to be a little obsessed… :)

“notes dont count because they are VERY, VERY bad for this thing. the fact that they might be used this way, doesnt make them usefull. notes are not usefull.”

You’ve got your answer earlier (not from me).

“ahh, the ‘money argument’. so why opera doesnt use webkit engine? ”

Because Opera exists far more earlier than WebKit? :)

“noone cares about html5 now.”

No. just the above praised WebKit, and the Mozilla…

“because opera has LOTS of quirks there”

Links proving this? Links proving that others has no issues at all?

“widgets.. the biggest money sink in the entire universe, even opera dont use it for anything. it is a crap, simple as that. both userjs and usercss are forgotten. opera did lots to kill it. and theyve managed that. btw. compare to extensions. is opera capable of doing what piclens/cooliris does?”

You lied, and now you just jump over it with a widget slashing session… There’re some godd ones out there, but I’ve never said, that they have the same capabilities (and purpose) as FF extension.

“is opera capable of doing what piclens/cooliris does?”

No. Do you think I care? No!

“snide remarks without merit. you bable about security and memory problems, yet there are no proofs, no links, not even faked screenshot with memory consumption.”

These were rightful arguments I guess, so you tell me, how FF3 made all extensions completely compatible with each other, or completely safe from coding errors (which can cause memory problems and security issues).

“ff3 (with typical extension set) is en par if it comes to memory use and ‘responsivenes’ with opera. both clearly beaten by chrome and safari. state some facts.”

Look, who’s talking… You didn’t mention any proof for your assumptions that you handle as ‘facts’. My arguments need all kinds of proof, yours none? In fact you didn’t have any arguments besides “FF2 was good, FF3 is (almost) perfect”

“that is your problem. because it sounds like you are using ff 1.5.”

Again an assumption from you, that completely fails. In fact, I got this habit of having the very latest version of the softwares I use on my computer.

“links please.”

http://prohardver.hu/tema/mozilla_firefox_2/friss.html OK, it’s Hungarian, but you will solve it with an extension, I’m sure. :) But if you don’t live under a rock, you must have read such kind of opinions in forums talking about FF or other browsers. You have to face the fact, that everyone has a different bit of taste, and an enormous variety of compontents (hardware and software).

I guess, that this conversation is not really belongs to this thread. Besides I’ve got tired of this conversation, where I hace to prove you everything, while you present your opinions as undisputable facts.

I may be wrong, but wasn’t this UserJS make for this purpose ?
http://userjs.org/scripts/browser/enhancements/ops

(Bam ! UserJS and auto-fill argument in one)

Just check “opera –help” to see all options