October, 2009 – Firefox, Safari and Chrome Market Share Goes Up; IE, Opera – Down

By | November 10, 2009 | 91 Comments


October, 2009 – Firefox, Safari and Chrome Market Share Goes Up; IE, Opera – DownIt’s that day of the month again, when we check and let you know, which web browser is becoming more and/or less popular. So let’s begin.

Not surprisingly, Internet Explorer lost more market share and went down from 65.71% to 64.64% (1.07 point decrease).

Celebrating its 5th birthday, Firefox market share went up from 23.75% to 24.07% (0.32 point increase).

Safari is also growing steadily and managed to grab an extra 0.18 point of market share, going up from 4.24% to 4.42%.

Google’s Chrome yet again increased its market share, this time by 0.41 point, going up from 3.17% to 3.58%.

This time Opera web browser has lost 0.02 point of its market share and went down from 2.19% to 2.17%.

With the release of Opera Mini 5, it has increased its market share by a nice 0.05 point, going up from 0.3% to 0.35%.

Here is a graph from NetApplications

October, 2009 – Firefox, Safari and Chrome Market Share Goes Up; IE, Opera – Down

[digg-reddit-me]


About (Author Profile)


Vygantas is a former web designer whose projects are used by companies such as AMD, NVIDIA and departed Westood Studios. Being passionate about software, Vygantas began his journalism career back in 2007 when he founded FavBrowser.com. Having said that, he is also an adrenaline junkie who enjoys good books, fitness activities and Forex trading.

  • Chromehere

    Why are you not posting mobile browser statistics? Is it because Opera is the #1 mobile browser perhaps?

  • Thoe

    Your problem is that you are quoting Net Applications, and they have demonstrably false statistics.

    One has to wonder why you keep reposting these statistics which you know to be false. You never address this issue. Is it because you are ashamed because you know that you are posting lies?

    The worst part is that just a couple of months ago Net Applications admitted that their statistics so far had been false, and changed all their statistics including historical ones.

    Despite this huge admission of flawed statistics, you continue to rely on Net Applications.

    Worse yet, they were exposed as recently as the other day, when they reported 30 million users for Chrome while Opera reported 40-50 million users. Meanwhile, the statistics from Net Applications claimed that Chrome supposedly had more than 50% higher market share than Opera, as your table shows.

    How can a browser with fewer users have a higher market share than a browser with more users in statistics that claim to count unique users?

    And you even brought up Opera Turbo and pointed to how they were probably counting Opera Turbo hits as Opera Mini hits.

    Where is your honesty and integrity when you keep posting statistics that even you have admitted are false?

    What is your agenda?

    • nobody

      blaa blaa blablabla

      “One has to wonder why you keep reposting these statistics which you know to be false. ”

      trends are not false in any way, they are in line with other stat sites. showing clearly that your pet opera is STAGNANT when it comes to MARKET SHARE (not users, market grows, so genericaly opera userbase grows in absolute numbers).

      “Your problem is that you are quoting Net Applications, and they have demonstrably false statistics.”

      FALSE? no, also they were not LYING, they changed methodology, thats subtle difference that you seem to purposedly ommit to have a reason to go around the net trowing empty acusation..

      “How can a browser with fewer users have a higher market share than a browser with more users in statistics that claim to count unique users?”

      yet again ill explain it to you: opera does not discloses ANY hard data on how they measure these numbers. few words from haavard from his blog IS NOT hard data for anyone else than die hard fanboy.

      “And you even brought up Opera Turbo and pointed to how they were probably counting Opera Turbo hits as Opera Mini hits.”

      maybe if opera disclosed some hard data, then stat companies could be able to take notice of opera mini/mobile/turbo and include it in algorithms. but aparently opera does nothing but whine, and in this case only opera can shed some light on this topic and help companies like net applications or statcounter or bazilion other stat sites

      “Where is your honesty and integrity when you keep posting statistics that even you have admitted are false?”

      somehow only Opera claims that these data are lies and false. mozilla sees a problem in accuracy, but they claim it to be reliable source to see market trends and overall situation. opera denies even that. and proposes NOTHING else to measure this data. only whine.

      • http://my.opera.com/DanielHendrycks/ Daniel Hendrycks

        “opera denies even that. and proposes NOTHING else to measure this data. only whine.”

        They are not whining, you are just saying they are, the reality is market cannot be measured. Quit saying Haavard Moen is the voice of Opera.

        “somehow only Opera claims that these data are lies and false. mozilla sees a problem in accuracy”

        Well they are false and lies. If there is a problem in accuracy it is false statistics. It is a lie because they do not have a disclaimer stating the situation that this is not accurate, they let you believe that this is correct. No one would do that, it would be bad for business. A problem in accuracy makes it false.

        Mozilla (Asa, once again you are picking one person and slapping down an opinion for the whole company) has proposed to have Google and Wikipedia gather results. That is not a reliable method either, there is no sure way to measure it. What is Opera supposed to propose when there is no answer?

        • nobody

          if you want a discussion, please quote ENTIRE sentences, not only parts of them. otherwise it will be seen as manipulation and make YOU a troll.

          “They are not whining, you are just saying they are, the reality is market cannot be measured. Quit saying Haavard Moen is the voice of Opera.”

          so please, tell me, where Opera has put information about their stance at user statistics, about how to measure market share, and how did they get their userbase number. Opera lives in last century, when EVERYTHING was a secret aparently.

          “Well they are false and lies. If there is a problem in accuracy it is false statistics. It is a lie because they do not have a disclaimer stating the situation that this is not accurate, they let you believe that this is correct. No one would do that, it would be bad for business. A problem in accuracy makes it false.”

          if accuracy is GOOD ENOUGH to show what is important – who is growing and who is not and relative rations between competitors – then accuracy is ok, and data can be trusted. and LIE mean saying untruth on purpose, not using wrong methodology (the best available). somehow market does not have problems with relying on these stats to see general picture. only opera has, and that is perfectly understandable – opera, despite all its ‘effort’ is still tailing behind and hardly moving forward. while both safari and chrome are growing very, very fast. if opera’ only ambition is to be profitable, than ok, if opera wants to be recognised as a major player again, they have to deliver what people want and request for ages now – website compatibility (not whines why it is hard), extension framework, and that f.. developer tools. it is pathetic that my mobile webkit browser renders pages better than desktop opera..

          “He is just expressing his opinions, I do doubt he is an employee. Please, quit trolling.”

          so i am trolling, but somebody who bases his entire line in discussion on innuendos, verbal abuse and empty acusations isnt? strong integrity and moral backbone you have, havent you?

          • Thoe

            otherwise it will be seen as manipulation and make YOU a troll.

            That’s hilarious coming from the guy who spends most of his day whining and trolling about Opera.

            so please, tell me, where Opera has put information about their stance at user statistics, about how to measure market share, and how did they get their userbase number.

            You are a dishonest little kid. How Opera counts numbers has got nothing to do with how market share would be counted.

            But it’s impossible to measure market share.

            if accuracy is GOOD ENOUGH to show what is important

            But it isn’t, as the facts clearly show. NetApps claim that Chrome has a 50% higher market share than Opera even though Opera has more users? Laughable.

            and LIE mean saying untruth on purpose, not using wrong methodology (the best available).

            Wrong. Using a bogus methodology and not being honest about the fact that it’s bogus is a lie.

            somehow market does not have problems with relying on these stats to see general picture.

            Billions of flies eat shit. Does that means that they are right, and that you should be eating shit too?

            The market relies on a lot of stuff. Look at the economic crash to see where that got the market.

            Just because a lot of people believe in fairy tales does not make those fairy tales true, dear troll.

            website compatibility (not whines why it is hard)

            Wow, you really are an ignorant little liar, aren’t you? Yes compatibility is hard. Just ask Google, who couldn’t get Chrome working with Gmail at first. Just ask Microsoft, who had to add a list of thousands of sites that didn’t work in IE8, and lots of sites still work. Just ask Safari which keeps breaking on many sites.

            so i am trolling, but somebody who bases his entire line in discussion on innuendos, verbal abuse and empty acusations isnt?

            Considering that you are basing your entire line on innuendos, verbal abuse and empty accusations, you are indeed trolling.

            strong integrity and moral backbone you have, havent you?

            Again, that’s hilarious coming from the most disgusting troll on this site.

          • nobody

            “But it isn’t, as the facts clearly show. NetApps claim that Chrome has a 50% higher market share than Opera even though Opera has more users? Laughable.”

            we are yet to see how opera gathers this information, untill then, i’m more inclined to believe stats gathered from milions of sites, than in numbers provided by browser that is struggling to show any kind of market share gain.

          • Thoe

            we are yet to see how opera gathers this information, untill then, i’m more inclined to believe stats gathered from milions of sites

            Just because stats are gathered from millions of sites doesn’t mean that they are representative or reliable, Mrs. Ignorance.

            You know how Opera counts their users by now. You are just pretending not to know to troll more.

            browser that is struggling to show any kind of market share gain.

            Since it’s impossible to measure market share you don’t know who’s struggling and who isn’t, but even so:

            http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_browser-ww-monthly-200904-200910

            Lie more please!

          • http://my.opera.com/DanielHendrycks/ Daniel Hendrycks

            I only quoted part of it because I didn’t need to repeat the whole entire statement. I also only quoted part of it because the statement still made sense. Your words where not twisted.

      • Thoe

        trends are not false in any way, they are in line with other stat sites.

        Wrong. The stats sites directly contradict each other.

        showing clearly that your pet opera is STAGNANT when it comes to MARKET SHARE

        REALLY!

        http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_browser-ww-monthly-200904-200910

        FALSE? no, also they were not LYING, they changed methodology

        Yep, completely bogus. And yes, they were lying. They have changed their stats several times without an explanation, remember?

        opera does not discloses ANY hard data on how they measure these numbers.

        They discloses as much as Mozilla, hypocrite.

        maybe if opera disclosed some hard data, then stat companies could be able to take notice of opera mini/mobile/turbo and include it in algorithms.

        Are you completely mad? What does Opera’s methods used to count their own users have to do with how stats sites detect Opera?

        LOL, you are insane.

        but aparently opera does nothing but whine, and in this case only opera can shed some light on this topic and help companies like net applications or statcounter or bazilion other stat sites

        You are insane. Stats sites don’t need to know how Opera counts users to detect Opera. But as you have admitted, browser stats are bogus.

        somehow only Opera claims that these data are lies and false.

        Uh no, Opera points out the fact that these stats are self-contradictory, there are too many errors and sources of errors, and are therefore completely unreliable.

        opera denies even that. and proposes NOTHING else to measure this data.

        Is it Opera’s job to measure global market share? Didn’t think so.

        The fact is that it’s impossible to measure global market share.

        only whine.

        That’s hilarious coming from a whiny little kid like you.

  • Thoe

    Your problem is that you are quoting Net Applications, and they have demonstrably false statistics.

    One has to wonder why you keep reposting these statistics which you know to be false. You never address this issue. Is it because you are ashamed because you know that you are posting lies?

    The worst part is that just a couple of months ago Net Applications admitted that their statistics so far had been false, and changed all their statistics including historical ones.

    Despite this huge admission of flawed statistics, you continue to rely on Net Applications.

    Worse yet, they were exposed as recently as the other day, when they reported 30 million users for Chrome while Opera reported 40-50 million users. Meanwhile the statistics from Net Applications claimed that Chrome supposedly had more than 50% higher market share than Opera, as your table shows.

    How can a browser with fewer users have a higher market share than a browser with more users in statistics that claim to count unique users?

    And you even brought up Opera Turbo and pointed to how they were probably counting Opera Turbo hits as Opera Mini hits.

    Where is your honesty and integrity when you keep posting statistics that even you have admitted are false?

    What is your agenda?

    • nobody

      “What is your agenda?”

      how much opera pays you?

      • http://my.opera.com/DanielHendrycks/ Daniel Hendrycks

        He is just expressing his opinions, I do doubt he is an employee. Please, quit trolling.

        • Eice

          nobody is trolling, while Thoe is merely “expressing his opinions?

          It’s unbelievable. Worshipping a browser can really make one lose one’s minds. Every time I see an Opera user, I keep thinking maybe here’s someone who will finally prove the stereotype that “Opera users are loser fanboys” wrong, but EVERY time I invariably get disappointed.

          • Thoe

            Yes, he is trolling. The only thing he ever does is to whine and lie about Opera.

            Which reminds me, why did you change your nick again, “nobody”? You are proving the stereotype that “anti-Opera trolls will never stop trolling”.

          • http://www.favbrowser.com Vygantas Lipskas

            Thoe, why are you posting using few different nicknames to make an impression that there are actually few people?

            As for Opera Mini, forgot to add it. Going to edit post now.

          • Thoe

            Vygantas Lipskas, why are you constantly posting stats from Net Applications even though you know the stats are completely bogus?

            You even admitted that Opera Mini and Opera Turbo seem to confuse these sites completely, so why do you keep posting things you know are false?

            You know what that is called, right? Yes, “lying”.

          • Thoe

            Also, no mobile market stats, eh? Where is the iPhone browser? Android?

          • http://www.favbrowser.com Vygantas Lipskas

            I never said that their stats are bogus, only said “IF” they are measuring market share by IP and are excluding other factors (such as Washout’s mentioned: “(X-Forwarded-For header.)” , it makes data less accurate for Opera. But I do not know if they do that or not.

          • Thoe

            So why do you keep parroting the stats when you have been informed that they are bogus?

          • nobody

            “informed” by who? you? buaahahaa

            there is nothing better to see/check market share of browser right now.

            if you have such better tool, post it, not forgetting to explain why it is BETTER. we all know that you are good at explaining why it is wrong. now try different game, and propose something on your own. so we can have good laugh.

          • http://www.favbrowser.com Vygantas Lipskas

            You can always skip posts and don’t have to read all of them.

            Just because one side says they are bogus, it does not make argument true.

            As on why I don’t report from SC, it has a bad UI and won’t do that until everything is fixed/redesigned. If you remember, I reported bad numbers when using SC few months ago. Not saying it’s their fault only.

          • Thoe

            You can always skip posts and don’t have to read all of them.

            Someone has to counter your FUD.

            Just because one side says they are bogus, it does not make argument true.

            I agree completely. It is not about which side says what, but about which side has actual facts. The actual facts show that claimed global browser stats are bogus, especially the ones from NetApps, who have been repeatedly caught cheating and manipulating their numbers.

            As on why I don’t report from SC, it has a bad UI and won’t do that until everything is fixed/redesigned.

            Uh, SC has a much better UI. More powerful and flexible, and gives much more control.

            Sadly, their stats are almost as useless as NetApps.

          • nobody

            “I agree completely. It is not about which side says what, but about which side has actual facts.”

            and YOU claim that Opera has facts? yet you are unable to post anything to prove your point.

          • Chromehere

            Sure Opera has facts. They can count the number of users checking for updates. And for Opera Mini they know exactly how many users they have because everything passes through their servers.

            But despite Opera Mini having nearly as many users as the desktop version, Net Applications shows Opera with 2.17% and Opera Mini with 0.35%?

            Again, something is completely weird with those statistics.

  • Ichan

    It is quite sad to see this website full of fanboys. What was the aim of this website? Was it to inform people of how the various browsers are doing? Or was it just erected asa a place where bias is the promonent concept?

    I really despise people who actively persue to shove down their own beliefs into other peoples throats. Dont get me wrong. I believe everybody has the right to use what they want, but to say x is better than y while bashing others whom do not share the same thoughts makes little sense.

    I discovered opera a few years back and fell in love with it ever since. I will not deny that Opera is my primary browser. This goes without mention that I do not use others browsers aswell. I have the two webkit browsers (Safarai, chrome) two trident browsers (IE 8, Maxthon and firefox. I use every browser on a weekly basis to see how my user experience will change compared to the other. After all what is a browser used for? To get the best browsing experience thats what. Why I tend to use the others rather than just opera? Well as you might know the biggest shortcoming of this browser is the website compatability. Some do not render correctly others do not like Opera while addons are only for popular browsers with a great deal of market share which I am forced to use scripts to get half the functionability of the addon.

    Opera on mobile really shines and is what a browser on a handheld device should be. It might not be perfect but it is atleast a step in the right direction.

    As for the statement about why Mozilla doesnt complain about market share; one should ask themselves ‘Do they have the need too?’ Firefox is the second succesfull browser by market adoption. It is steadily rising as the others fall. It will be a matter of time until IE is lower than firefox. This will be greatly aided by the fact if most users know what a browser really is and that alternatives can be used. The Ballot screen for the EU nations will help furthur diminish the numbers for IE. Who knows it might be the Netscape of its time (BTW Netscape was the dare I say best browser)

    “They are not whining, you are just saying they are, the reality is market cannot be measured. Quit saying Haavard Moen is the voice of Opera”

    Firstly Daniel you are a great young boy with a passion for technology. I really like how you are adamant about your mind to back up and support your favourite program. Secondly, Judging by what I can remmeber I have read at opera blogs (so tedious to read) Opera Do complain (or at least some developers) about the validity of this market share tests and claim that they are always flawed. Who knows they may all be flawed. Opera may be the most used browser and people are just masking. But what would be a flaw in this case? Maybe a 1-2% decrease for the other browsers and a 0.5% increase for opera? All opera does is complain rather than truely focusing on its products. It is like the little kid who looses in a pokemon battle and proclaims that the other cheated. When is their ‘Caraken’ javascript engine going to come out? Did we have a chance to test it? What did they say it was 2.5 times faster than the previous Futhark. Where is the facts. Sure you can state you got a faster thing but I do not belive acquasations that much. This is why I thank nobody for his/her post.

    Sorry for all this bullshit but this website is just full of little crying babies that do not like other products and wish their own used program could be on top.

    • Thoe

      All opera does is complain rather than truely focusing on its products.

      So what you are saying is that it’s impossible to criticize poor research and at the same time make a product?

      It is like the little kid who looses in a pokemon battle and proclaims that the other cheated.

      Are you saying the same thing about Mozilla, who are constantly going on and on and on about security tests and how Firefox does poorly at those?

      When is their ‘Caraken’ javascript engine going to come out? Did we have a chance to test it? What did they say it was 2.5 times faster than the previous Futhark. Where is the facts.

      So what you are saying is that Opera should never reveal anything of what they are working on, and instead just leave it as a surprise for when it’s ready? They should never talk about unfinished things at all?

      • Thoe
        • nobody

          http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_browser-eu-monthly-200908-200910 – maybe this – opera is LOSING market share in europe (and in america). pretty big blow, but you ignore it?

          • Thoe

            Opera is GAINING market share globally, but I guess you don’t care about facts.

            Emerging markets are where the real growth is taking place, BTW.

          • Thoe

            I wonder why the obsessive troll is so concerned about local stats after having pushed global stats all along.

            Hypocrisy is strong with this one.

          • Ichan

            That is exactly what I am saying. (Congrats on recycling the same sentence thrice btw)

            Talk about obsessive. How many times have you replied? And BTW why you accusing people of being TROLLS. The only troll I see is you

            You are so anal as to defend your point of view. I guess ignorance is bliss was created for people like you. I reckon you enjoy the attention you get by intentionally stirring up commotion between others. What do we call people like you? Let me see….hmmm..

            Tell me what browser you used before Opera? Firefox? And now you hate it with a passion. Why is that?

          • Chromehere

            @Ichan

            All opera does is complain rather than truely focusing on its products.

            Why aren’t you saying the same thing about Mozilla and all their complaining about security metrics?

          • nobody

            maybe because mozilla actualy does something more to their browser besides talking. beta 2 of FF 3.6 already has support for all win7 features, where opera is barely thinking about thinking about them.

            thats the difference that creates opera’ image as whinners and not do’ers.

          • Chromehere

            maybe because mozilla actualy does something more to their browser besides talking. beta 2 of FF 3.6 already has support for all win7 features, where opera is barely thinking about thinking about them.

            I find it interesting that you know what Opera is working on or thinking about even if they haven’t released that info to the market.

            Opera just released Opera 10, a major upgrade with a huge amount of changes and improvements. So your claim that they aren’t doing anything rings hollow. The only way for your claim to make sense is if they disbanded the desktop team, which they clearly haven’t since they are still churning out new builds and technologies.

            And I haven’t even mentioned Opera Mini 5 and Opera Mobile 10 yet…

            So tell me again why it’s OK for Mozilla to constantly complain about security metrics, while it’s not OK for a couple of guys at Opera to point out the fallacy of browser statistics?

          • Whinners

            “thats the difference that creates opera’ image as whinners and not do’ers.”

            Opera are “whinners” (sic) and not doers because… the current final version doesn’t support new Windows 7 features?

            Neither does the latest version of Firefox. So according to your logic, Mozilla are “whinners and not do’ers” (sic).

          • nobody

            i still think and say that opera does very little – it is still catch-up game with firefox and other browsers on the desktop. esp when it comes to basic, essential stuff like OS integration, website compatibility and developer tools for people to make websites work with opera.

            yes, theyve introduced turbo, unite and whatnot – problem is, that opera STILL lacks basic, essential, base functionalities. and these are not appearing.

            opera seems to prefer to chase weird ideas than making working product. opera website compatibility is a great disapointment, and that did not change for several years. somehow safari and chrome overcome this issues, why opera couldnt? maybe disband unite&crap team and hire more Core developers?

            because opera becomes a browser with lots of gadgets but no substance. how long before facebook and other most important sites start to work with opera just like with all other browsers?

            it is called time-to-market – for opera it is very long.

            on mobiles opera for long didnt have much competition, iPhone changed that dramaticaly, showing that compromises arent necessary. and opera asks users to accept compromises (bad rendering, popular sites not working).

          • Whinners

            i still think and say that opera does very little – it is still catch-up game with firefox and other browsers on the desktop.

            Even if this were true, playing catchup means that they are “doers”. You are directly contradicting yourself.

            yes, theyve introduced turbo, unite and whatnot

            Ah, so you retract your previous statement. Interesting. You contradict yourself again.

            opera website compatibility is a great disapointment, and that did not change for several years. somehow safari and chrome overcome this issues, why opera couldnt?

            Oh, Safari and Chrome have lots of compatibility problems. But since Google is so huge and Safari is bundled with Macs and iPhones, those browsers have a much easier time getting developers to fix their sites.

            Opera is the only independent browser that can’t piggyback off of someone else.

            With that said, I never come across sites that don’t work in Opera anymore.

            how long before facebook and other most important sites start to work with opera just like with all other browsers?

            Facebook works fine here.

            on mobiles opera for long didnt have much competition, iPhone changed that dramaticaly, showing that compromises arent necessary. and opera asks users to accept compromises (bad rendering, popular sites not working).

            Actually the iPhone browser has lots of compatibility problems. But I guess it’s OK since it isn’t Opera :D

          • Whinners

            This is pretty crazy stuff from nobody.

            Again, the latest final version of Firefox is not integrated into Windows 7. As not being integrated into Windows 7 was supposed to be evidence of “not do’ers”, that would clearly define Mozilla as “not do’ers” either.

            So what does nobody do?

            He moves the goalpost!

            So this time it’s:

            “Opera isn’t working on a couple of sites, and it isn’t integrated into Windows 7, therefore they aren’t do’ers”

            Amazing stuff.

            What he means to say is “Opera isn’t doing what I want them to do”, but the problem is clearly that no matter what Opera does, this “nobody” guy will flame them for it.

            The only conclusion, then, is that “nobody” will invent new reasons to bash Opera regardless of how many times his illogical arguments are turned against him.

            Yawn.

          • nobody

            “Oh, Safari and Chrome have lots of compatibility problems. But since Google is so huge and Safari is bundled with Macs and iPhones, those browsers have a much easier time getting developers to fix their sites.”

            list them then.

            and somehow you contradict yourself now – opera is more popular on mobiles – so it should be supported, shouldnt it? if iphone browser does have this benefit, opera sure also have. maybe it is the tools that opera provides (lack of them to be exact).

            “Facebook works fine here.”

            and it doesnt here – try something else than seeing front page, like silverlight games..

            “Opera is the only independent browser that can’t piggyback off of someone else.”

            you brag all the time as opera is a profitable company, maybe they should spend more on catch-up game? money in the bank does not do any work done.

            anyway, it is opera concious decisions and these are their consequences – most important one was no-extensions policy, that made line opera employees do (for money) that tens of thousands extensions makers did for mozilla for free (yes, some vere paid or hired) during these years. supporting this code also costs, and alot.

          • Whinners

            The only contradictions here are yours.

            You only mentioned the “iPhone” part, while I explained that Safari is default on Mac as well.

            Silverlight games on Facebook? They have Silverlight games? LOL. Sorry, but I’m not a kid who needs to play silly online games.

            But you are changing the subject again, dear child!

            Again, the latest final version of Firefox is not integrated into Windows 7. As not being integrated into Windows 7 was supposed to be evidence of “not do’ers”, that would clearly define Mozilla as “not do’ers” either.

            So what does nobody do?

            He moves the goalpost!

            And now he tries to change the subject!

    • Thoe
    • Thoe
    • Thoe

      Yep, more:
      http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2007/06/real_world_secu.html

      And more again:
      http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2006/09/better_metrics.html

      Is this OK, but not when Opera points out the flaws in browser stats?

    • Thoe

      And a damn long URL:

      https://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2006/09/26/better-metrics-for-security-understanding-the-symantec-internet-security-threat-report/

      So why is no one whining about Mozilla’s whining? Is it only bad if Opera is doing it?

      Is this hypocrisy or what?

    • Thoe

      I believe everybody has the right to use what they want, but to say x is better than y while bashing others whom do not share the same thoughts makes little sense.

      Seems that you did just this just now by bashing Opera for sharing their opinions, but not even mentioning Mozilla’s constant whining about security metrics.

      Oops.

    • nobody

      “Opera on mobile really shines and is what a browser on a handheld device should be. It might not be perfect but it is atleast a step in the right direction.”

      http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_browser-eu-monthly-200908-200910 – market share graph for europe.

      problem with opera mobile is, that with closing gap between mobile and desktop browsers problems that linger Desktop will also affect Mobile – website incompatibility, lack of extensions, poor developers support. users will not tolerate it as much as they did in early days of mobiles. iPhone shows clearly, that you can use mobile to browse without compromises. Opera Mobile (as Opera Deskopt) asks user to accept compromises in rendering and compatibility. why should user accept?

      Opera Mobile isnt free – thats another problem. Webkit browsers (android, iphone, soon blackbery and other main suppliers) are free to obtain engine, and cost a little to implement (or nothing, if it is already developed by some other party).

      what is end user going to choose – free browser with better website compatibility or Opera Mobile? as for now carriers decide, with ‘market’ like business model, end user’ vote will prevail.

      btw – http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/1.0b5/fennec-1.0b5.en-US.win32.zip – you can try what firefox on mobile will look like.

      • Thoe

        Global market share graph:

        http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_browser-ww-monthly-200910-200910-bar

        problem with opera mobile is, that with closing gap between mobile and desktop browsers problems that linger Desktop will also affect Mobile

        Nope, because most devices online will be mobiles very soon. And Opera is dominant there.

        Opera Mobile (as Opera Deskopt) asks user to accept compromises in rendering and compatibility.

        No it doesn’t. Safari fails on more sites than Opera (Mobile), sadly.

        Opera Mobile isnt free

        It sure is. Just go to opera.com and download it. You don’t have to pay a dime.

        Webkit browsers (android, iphone, soon blackbery and other main suppliers) are free to obtain engine, and cost a little to implement (or nothing, if it is already developed by some other party).

        Wrong. It’s extremely expensive and time-consuming to even make browsers based on Webkit. Just ask Google, who took more than 2 years to do it on for desktop computers. Even longer to port it to other desktop platforms.

        Just ask Blackberry who bought an entire company to make their browser, and they still weren’t able to do it properly, so now they need to hire even more people. EXPENSIVE!

        you can try what firefox on mobile will look like

        Slow, bloated and unstable? :D

        • nobody

          “No it doesn’t. Safari fails on more sites than Opera (Mobile), sadly.”

          post links instead of spreading fud

          • Thoe

            LOL, look who’s talking :D

            Hypocrite.

  • Dels

    i don’t really care about market share, statistics or etc… discussing that only make my head feel so much pain (did i say i got C in statistic on my university days?)

    as long i can use my favorite browser(s) i didn’t mind, and yeah i admit i use 3 browsers right now Opera (daily use), Chrome (i love google products, don’t ask me why) and Firefox (mainly because firebug as dragonfly still alpha and i hate firebug lite)

    in this case, myself will be counted as 3 person’s since i use 3 browser according to statistics, and if the statistics were based on ip address, how about dynamic ip? ip sharing (office, internet cafe, wifi hotspot, etc)?

    ps: pardon me for bad “engrish”

  • Thoe

    All opera does is complain rather than truely focusing on its products.

    So what you are saying is that it’s impossible to criticize poor research and at the same time make a product?

    It is like the little kid who looses in a pokemon battle and proclaims that the other cheated.

    Are you saying the same thing about Mozilla, who are constantly going on and on and on about security tests, how Firefox does poorly at those, and how that’s unfair to Firefox because the metrics make Firefox look bad?

    When is their ‘Caraken’ javascript engine going to come out? Did we have a chance to test it? What did they say it was 2.5 times faster than the previous Futhark. Where is the facts.

    So what you are saying is that Opera should never reveal anything of what they are working on, and instead just leave it as a surprise for when it’s ready? They should never talk about unfinished things at all?

  • nobody

    “They discloses as much as Mozilla, hypocrite.”

    link

    • Thoe

      Nope. Your link first.

      • nobody

        there is no link from opera, so ill not bother. opera NEVER provided any sort of methodology, terminology or any other form of hard evidence to support their numbers.

        nor they ever commented on opera mini/mobile/turbo impact on browser stats. maybe there is no impact? if it was, opera would surely make a big story out of it.

        • Thoe

          You are wrong. Opera did provide their methodology, to the same degree that Mozilla did. You give me your link, and I might give you mine.

          How would Opera know all the details about the bogus browser stats engines? Also, if they did say anything about it, you would only be whining about it. Apparently people who work for Opera aren’t allowed to say anything about anything without whiners like you whining about it! :D

          • nobody

            you *might*?

            “How would Opera know all the details about the bogus browser stats engines?”

            because they can read the code and see what and how trackers collect. something youll never be able to do, because bricks dont read.

            “Opera did provide their methodology”

            where? you are the only one claiming that they did.

          • Thoe

            because they can read the code and see what and how trackers collect

            Uh, how does looking at Opera’s code reveal anything about what stats sites look for?

            Your ignorance is quite amazing :D

            You don’t need to read the code to look at the useragent string, dear child.

            You do need to read StatCounter and NetApps’ code to know how they are tracking browsers, but they refuse to provide a detailed methodology (exactly what you demand of Opera). And yet you blindly have faith in them!

            Hypocrite, much?

            where? you are the only one claiming that they did.

            Sorry, your link first.

          • nobody

            youll never provide anything, because there isnt such thing as opera statement on how they deduced these numbers you are waving around.

            and idiot, i meant tracker JS code. you know JS, right? so go read it and tell me if it is user agent used to determine browser.

          • Thoe

            There are as many statements from Opera as there are from Mozilla, but no link, no play :)

            Tracker JS code? LOL. That still doesn’t tell you how the actual statistics are put together, you moron.

  • Ichan

    Btw what tag do I use to make a quote? ? ,

    ????

    • http://www.favbrowser.com Vygantas Lipskas

      Yes, blockquote

      • Ichan

        Ok thank you

        ———————-
        testing:

        Wish this worked

        as:

        blockquote sounds pretty dumb

    • Whinners

      @Ichan

      All opera does is complain rather than truely focusing on its products.

      Why aren’t you saying the same thing about Mozilla and all their complaining about security metrics?

      • nobody

        stick to “Thoe” nickname, your language does you good when it comes to recognition

        • Whinners

          Please answer the question, and stop trying to change the subject.

          • nobody

            nervous? so easy to spot?

            it is hard to keep track of your nicknames, thankfuly your lack of personality makes this mundane taks easy

          • Eice

            Given his complete lack of imagination in regurgitating the same rhetoric over and over, it’s Purdi from the Opera forums.

          • Whinners

            And the dodging and weaving continues!

            Please stop trying to change the subject.

            Why aren’t you saying the same thing about Mozilla and all their complaining about security metrics?

  • David

    hi my name is David i am a firefox fan firefox is fast

  • http://my.opera.com/DanielHendrycks/ Daniel Hendrycks

    @Ichan (We are starting our own conversation here, everyone except nobody and Thoe (this is a continuation of your comment saying I am passionate about technology)

    Hello, thank you for your compliment and your bash. Both were needed to help me change my tone. I show my bad side when nobody is around because he will be oh so rude and downsize what I work for. I really dislike him as (IMO) he is very one sided (nobody, do not respond, this is our conversation). Thank you for not starting off in a bad tone. Rather than me expressing my bad side in this forum I would like to actually have a conversation and not a “Let me rip your eyes out” “discussion”.

    (I did not bother to read the comments under your comments so this may be repeated)

    Let’s talk about Carakan for right now (I have to hurry, it is late so we will cover more things later). Carakan has been in development for over a year now which to some is a very long time but building a JS engine, as you may know, is very difficult. Haavard has confirmed Carakan keeps getting faster and faster. To get a scope of how developed Carakan is Thomas Ford (Opera Spokesperson) has stated Carakan has not even entered an alpha state. (he said that when v10 was released) We haven’t got a labs build yet probably because of stability. If it Carakan’s lab build was a crashing disaster multiple articles would bad mouth Opera.
    That’s why you’re not seeing it yet. Have patince, I do have the feeling we will see a labs soon. (I guess for Christmas or to February).

    We will discuss the employees whining later. Thank you, I enjoy having a conversation rather then a war.

    Bye for now
    Daniel H. :)

    • Whinners

      @Ichan (again)

      All opera does is complain rather than truely focusing on its products.

      Why aren’t you saying the same thing about Mozilla and all their complaining about security metrics?

    • Ichan

      (nobody, do not respond, this is our conversation)

      I see that has fallen onto death ears.

      (I did not bother to read the comments under your comments so this may be repeated)

      TBH I havent really read the comments myself and think somebody is playing the ‘change forum name’ game to reply.

      It would be nice to get some news on how Opera is doing in terms of its JS engine as I feel we are left in the dark to guess about the benefits it brings. Sure there is the article but I believe that lacks substance. If what you say is correct about the release (and lets hope it is around that time) It will be awesome news for us as Opera develops for its core features. This is the area I feel Opera has neglected a bit. I understand that fixing bugs is all that important (as they do in the snapshot releases) but implementing something this drastic will give the thing a fresh start and a new lease in life. Don’t you think it is a bit boring that the only thing thats get fixed are little bugs?

      Thank you for the time to respond Daniel. I hope the few people hear actually listen to positive critisims rather than trying to attack others for their POV.

      Regards,

      • Thoe

        It would be nice to get some news on how Opera is doing in terms of its JS engine as I feel we are left in the dark to guess about the benefits it brings.

        It brings the benefit of doing well at those synthetic benchmarks.

        Sure there is the article but I believe that lacks substance.

        There are actually several articles, and they are quite detailed. Which article are you referring to?

        It will be awesome news for us as Opera develops for its core features. This is the area I feel Opera has neglected a bit.

        How can they have neglected it when there have been two major releases of Presto since Opera 10? Presto 2.3 for some SDK, then Presto 2.4 in Opera Mobile.

        Don’t you think it is a bit boring that the only thing thats get fixed are little bugs?

        Whatever gave you that idea? Look up the info on Presto 2.3 and 2.4 for yourself.

        BTW, you still haven’t explained whether you think it’s OK for Mozilla to “whine” about security or not.

        • http://my.opera.com/DanielHendrycks/ Daniel Hendrycks

          Well Ichan, I guess we cannot have a conversation.

          • Thoe

            Sure you can. Ichan just needs to stop making accusations without backing them up.

          • nobody

            or you just need to go away.

            if you are so insane to annoy opera supporters, than your only goal is to spread hate, not even support your employer

          • Thoe

            Oooh, the troll is looking in the mirror again. Why don’t YOU go away, nobody? The only thing you ever to is to obsessively bash Opera 24/7. Why do you keep whining about Opera like a little crybaby? Don’t you have anything better to do with your sad, miserable life? Guess not.

  • Mort

    StatCounter browser stats are flawed! Firefox 3.5 is s-l-0-w and dynamic html (js) fails.